You Only Go Once (Y.O.G.O.)
Cheryl and Eileen explore different topics around the limited time we have on this earth to create a fully layered life. Because...You Only Go Once!
You Only Go Once (Y.O.G.O.)
Unveiling Resilience: Dae Spiral's Story of Suspensions, Spirituality and Sound Healing
Join us on an enticing journey of body and mind with the extraordinary Dae Spiral. Dae, a 34-year-old queer and trans artist, meditator, and body piercer, brings a unique perspective to our discussion. He sheds light on his fascinating experiences with body piercing, energy absorption, and his interest in the healing arts. Immerse yourself in his captivating exploration of sound as a potent tool for meditation and relaxation. And prepare to be moved as Dae recounts his 10-day silent meditation retreat during the pandemic, a transformative journey that unfolds in profound ways.
Journey deeper as Dae imparts his intriguing insights into the spiritual practice of suspension. Discover a world where individuals hang from hooks in their skin, and the significant physical and spiritual implications it carries. Dae's personal experiences and his practice of suspending outdoors add a new dimension to this intimate ritual. The sacred origins of suspension, the respect it commands, and the physical scars it leaves behind, all make for a fascinating exploration. As we traverse Dae's spiritual landscape, we also delve into his experiences with sound healing and body ritual, underlining the transformative power of these practices.
End this journey on a reflective note, as Dae shares how he navigated the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. Dae's exploration of Vipassana meditation and its connection to music sheds light on the role of a teacher in this discipline and the healing power of sound. His journey from chaos to clarity during these trying times and his subsequent work in sound healing is a testament to his resilience. This conversation with Dae Spiral is an exploration of spirituality, healing, and transformation, leaving you inspired and enriched.
Hi, I'm Dae Spiral. I hope, when you look back on your life, you only compare yourself to your past self, because you only go once.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Hello, hello, hello. Welcome everyone to this week's episode of you Only Go Once. I'm Cheryl Cantafio, here with my fantastic co-host, Eileen Grimes, and we have our next special guest.
Eileen Grimes:Thanks, cheryl. So today we have a special guest that I'm very excited about. We have Dae Spiral here. So Dae is a 34-year-old queer and trans artist and a meditator who just so happened to sign up for a 10-day silent meditation retreat. The same week the pandemic caused most of the country to shut down. Talk about timing.
Eileen Grimes:Dae has a professional background in body piercing and rose to become an expert in his field, only to find himself miserable and sick from stress. He came to find that he was subject to the transference of energy of the people that he was piercing all day and began to develop an interest in the healing arts while looking for ways to feel better himself. Sound is a tool that aids in meditation and relaxation, both physically and energetically, after finding great comfort and profound healing. With this modality pairing perfectly with his lifelong love of singing and creating music with the guitar piano, it became Dae's mission to help others truly heal with intentional presence and sound. I always add a little bit because I'm just so excited and we know each other and I have met you through actually both piercing and sound. It feels like an incredible gift to be able to shine a light on you and have you be able to share your story with our listeners here today. I'm just so grateful to have you here with us, so welcome.
Dae Spiral:Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Eileen Grimes:Yeah. So, gosh, there are so many pieces to your story, right, which is one incredible, and we were talking before, so we don't do video, but Dae has an amazing shirt on right now. Happy fall y'all. Yep, I'm feeling it. You know what? I went to Huckleberries today and I didn't know what I was going to make for dinner, but I just went around and I was like, oh my gosh, I want those colorful carrots and I want some yams, and like I just found stuff and made a stew and my daughter and I were just sitting and eating it and it was fantastic and just everything that I wanted. So I am very much living in the fall world that we are currently experiencing here, even though I need to do a lot of leaf pickup soon, but that's okay.
Dae Spiral:It's definitely soup mode. Soup mode is activated?
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yes, soup mode is activated, for sure. Yes, yep. Oh, I just found a new recipe for a apple cheddar soup, which also is an onion soup and I was like aw, so anyway bought all the ingredients for that, so that could be either awesome or fondue, depending on how well it comes out. So either way, I'm excited because it's a new soup, because usually I relegate to like chicken noodle or butternut squash, or there's one that has like tortellini and sausage in it, which is super yummy, so that sounds amazing.
Eileen Grimes:I think you might have to do a behind the scenes thing, right?
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yeah, yeah, watch my kitchen just be splattered with. The first time I made a butternut squash soup I had to clean it from the ceiling because I didn't realize it was like her ploping and it went to the ceiling, it went into our fan. I was like, oh Carol, yeah, it was a mess, but luckily I cleaned it and it turned out to be really good. But it was much more and I learned you know, put the cover on, like, don't, don't rely on your eyes to do this, because you get distracted easily. So, yes, so I live for soup season, so it's incredible.
Eileen Grimes:Well, you have to also. Just can you share that recipe the butternut squash one with me All right back to Dae, sorry, so no, it's totally fine. So obviously so. We we met when you were piercing. That was one of the sort of primary modalities of things that you were doing at the time. What got you into body piercing? How did that kind of start for you?
Dae Spiral:Well, I got into body piercing because I was getting piercings. I was getting piercings from a close friend of mine who had just finished his apprenticeship and we had actually worked together. We had worked together at Subway. We were working the night shift at Subway together in a college town, which means that the Subway was open till 3am. So from like from like midnight to two, it was kind of dead, and then, as the bar started to let out to 2, 30, we would just be slammed with like drunk college kids.
Dae Spiral:Sure, it's been a lot of spent a lot of idle time together and developed a friendship. And then he left Subway and he went on to work at a tattoo and piercing shop and began a piercing apprenticeship. And then, after you know a while in his apprenticeship he was piercing people and I was like, well, I'm gonna go get pierced by you because we're friends. And when I would get piercings I would just ask questions. I was like so curious and I would be like what is that for? Why are you doing like that? What does that tool do? What are you doing now? And he would like explain every step of the way, because we were good friends and I'd say after like maybe five or six of these you know visits where I would get pierced, and we would kind of like shoot the shit and he would like explain things to me. Then he would be like do you want to learn how to do this?
Eileen Grimes:You're asking me a lot of questions.
Dae Spiral:And I'm basically teaching you how to do this and I need help around here. So it was kind of like right place, right time. I literally had nothing. I had no plans for my life. I was just bumming around a college town working in fast food and so I started. I was like, yes, yes, I would love to learn how to do something I would love to trade. So it was just kind of serendipitous that I ended up doing it. But it was after several experiences, including a suspension, that really pulled me more into like a spiritual space about it. In the beginning it was really shallow, it was kind of like surface level. At first I was like piercings look, that looks like it would be terrible to do.
Eileen Grimes:It looks painful, can I do?
Dae Spiral:that. Am I tough enough to do that, I wonder if I can do that. And then it was also about like people who had piercings. They looked really tough At that time. I was just in the beginning of my gender journey, so as a trans person, I was just starting to live as male and I was just starting to kind of own my masculinity in a different way and present differently. And it felt like a way to like appear more masculine and appear more tough.
Dae Spiral:I've also never felt tough, so the fact that I could maybe look tough was like kind of a plus for me. Yeah, totally, I could like hold my own a little and be protected in the world. If I just looked tough. So it was kind of like. It was kind of like just an act. At first it was like a costume, it was like a performance.
Cheryl Cantiafio:It was a fashion.
Dae Spiral:It was just a fashion statement. But once I had a suspension was when that all changed, and suspensions are kind of intense. I don't know if either of y'all have seen photos of what suspensions are like.
Eileen Grimes:I have, so can you describe what that means or what that? Oh, okay, looks like.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yeah, the light bulb went off, but yeah, just explain it, because that is all right Go Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go Go.
Dae Spiral:As somebody who's both experienced it and facilitated it and has, you know, at one point I had never seen it before and saw it for the first time. In that moment, when I had never seen it before and saw it for the first time, it totally freaked me out. I was like sure you know it, like gave me the like. I was like really, I made me uncomfortable to see. So suspension is when people hang from hooks in their skin and there's lots of different ways that it's done, but it, you know it traditionally is from an indigenous practice called the Sundance, and there are other. There are other indigenous practices that involve piercings and, and you know, body ritual, but the Sundance specifically was about making a, making a wound in your body and pulling against a tree. So it would be like a really tiny like. It would be like a little little pinch of skin from like the chest, maybe it was done with like a really sharp, you know, stick or thorn. You know a primitive piercing needle right, yeah, nature's piercing needle and the ritual was that the, it was a, it was a coming of age ritual. You would, you would pull, you would have the, this thorn or whatever, tied with a twine and then that was tied to a tree and you would pull against it, against the tree, until eventually it worked loose. And the indigenous practices sometimes days, you know, people would be in this ritual and working, and working, and working until finally it breaks free. But the more modern version of that is much less ritual, much less spiritual. Again, it's kind of shallow, but it's. It's again, you know, a rite of passage in a way and a way to get the body to a different state, to an altered state, right. When we do these intense piercings I mean there are large gauge piercings in the body it can send the body into a state, a state of shock, right, and in that state of shock you can go between between worlds.
Dae Spiral:Fakir Musafar is an important figure in the body modification industry and he's somebody who is considered the grandfather of the modern piercing movement and he is really one of the main people who brought suspension into mainstream because of his experiences in South Dakota on native land. He had, his neighbors were native people and he went to school with native people and he learned about their rituals. They shared rituals with him and taught him about things and then he practiced them on his own, all by himself in the 50s. So you know, it was really really strange then. But slowly, as as it's become more and more popularized, more and more people have been fascinated by it. It's become, you know, more of a phenomenon that the mainstream world takes part in. But I think I feel like it's important to say, you know, with all of that, that it is a sacred, indigenous practice, first and foremost, and that's what's inspired, you know, the whole movement from here.
Eileen Grimes:Yeah, and I appreciate that you share that too. From the Just understanding, history and sacred traditions too right, and where things come from, it's really incredibly important just to see how things became as they are and the meaning behind it as it, as you're experiencing some of these things too, and so I definitely want to hear about your experience with that as well, because obviously it was something big for you as you were going through that.
Dae Spiral:It was really, really impactful. To that I would like to say the Sundance comes from the Mandan and Lakota tribes. Kadavi is called the Dance of the Birdens, which comes from Sri Lanka and Southeast Asian traditions.
Dae Spiral:And then there's tons of other indigenous cultures that have piercing traditions. That's really where this modern piercing movement that we see, you know. You just see everybody's got nose piercings, everybody's got little ear piercings. That came from something so different and so important and sacred. So it's important to speak on that. But my suspension experience I would not intend to suspend. The day that I suspended I went to watch people suspend. I was just a piercer with my piercer friend. It was like, hey, I have a friend who's doing suspensions at his shop. So we traveled, you know, we drove like an hour and a half to our friend's studio. It was after hours, you know. We had like a couple of people who had agreed to do suspensions. It was really beautiful. They put like paper over all the windows so nobody could see in.
Dae Spiral:It was just like a private, you know just us in the space and you know, whoever wanted to go up got to pick whatever music was playing when they, when they did the suspension, which was you know everybody's different right we all had different kinds of music that we want to listen to. And then you know, I'm watching people go up and my friend comes up to me and he's like, OK, when are you going up? And I was like, well, I didn't plan on going up today.
Dae Spiral:Also, you know, you do have to pay for the supplies, and at that time I was broke, not being responsible with money, and I was like I take a while, you know, and not Right. And he was like nah, it's not a big deal, I'm your, my friend, I'll take care of it, doesn't matter, let's go up, what do you want to do? And I was like I'm really, though I was not, it's not prepared to not prepare myself for this yeah.
Dae Spiral:I was like, nah, come on, what are you thinking? And I was like, well, if I did go up I would do a lotus position, which you know, there's all different ways that you can do the hooks on the body, but that one was two through the back, two through the tops of the thighs and two through like the sides of the leg, so you're kind of like sitting out. Of all of the different body positions, I saw that one seemed the most comfortable to me.
Dae Spiral:I know that sounds really weird because there's like a lot of piercings. But I didn't know. I was trying to like conceptualize, like what is this going to feel like? How am I going to? It's just my skin, yeah. So I was like maybe having more points would be smarter to have it like more evenly distributed.
Eileen Grimes:Yeah.
Dae Spiral:Now, looking back, I've done I've done multiple point suspensions like that several times and I've done the two in the back and for anybody listening, two in the back is also totally fine to start with. It really is not.
Dae Spiral:I'd say the me going for six was probably not the best idea at once, but I did that, so I sat for six piercings in my body. We put hooks in, connected it to rope that is specially tied. I mean, these are like rock climbers in terms of like the knowledge that you have to have about rigging and weight-bearing ropes and like the special carabiners and all the stuff. So I had a couple of very experienced people walking me through that. It's not just like tie a knot and then you're done.
Cheryl Cantiafio:It's very important. The knots are very important.
Dae Spiral:So, yeah, I had like this team of people that all were working to help me get set up in this thing, and when they started to lift me off the grits, it's funny. It's on YouTube. You can look up Dae's First Lotus suspension and you can watch.
Cheryl Cantiafio:I'm definitely not. Yeah, I have to look at that up now.
Dae Spiral:Yes, but you can see in the video and I'll tell you when it's about, when I'm about to come off the ground, when I'm about to be completely on the weight of my own skin, there's a moment where I'm like I don't think I can do this, you know, and I like tell the practitioner. I'm like I don't know if I can do this. And he's like just breathe and relax. And I was like all right, and I'm just breathing and then I'm off the ground and then I'm floating.
Cheryl Cantiafio:And.
Dae Spiral:I'm like holy shit, I'm here All right. It doesn't feel great, I will say it hurts, right Sure.
Dae Spiral:There's a moment like 60 to 75 seconds into the pain where it starts to change and that is where I started to have an out of thought experience and have a shift in my consciousness. If I closed my eyes, I could see bright, bright, blinding light. I opened my eyes, it was just normal room. Close my eyes, bright light. So I was like wow. I remember there being experiences that Fakir had spoken about too, where he would suspend and see the bright light. So as soon as I closed my eyes and saw the bright light, I was like holy shit, I'm seeing the bright and the same bright light. And the pain was replaced with peace and this feeling of warmth and comfort and calm and like euphoria. I was a newly out trans person, topless, in a room full of strangers, and I was so comfortable and happy and safe.
Dae Spiral:And felt so held and witnessed by the people that were also witnessing me, and that I remember closing my eyes and I remember feeling like I was up twirling and then I realized that my friend had just very gently tapped the rig so I wasn't spinning really fast, I was slowly moving just like a mobile and I was like, wow, this feels really cool. And then I remember, after about like 20, 30 minutes, feeling bad because one of my other friends was like holding my weight. He's just like holding a rope with all of my weight on it as I'm suspending and I'm like somebody is like responsible for me right now, like holding on me.
Dae Spiral:I'm like, okay, I can become down.
Cheryl Cantiafio:So I stayed up there for like a good half an hour, but then I was like wow, that was going to be my question, because you said the first 60 to 75 seconds and I was like you stayed up that long and then now you just said 20 to 30 minutes and I was like yeah, it blew my mind too, because I was on the floor like I don't think I can do this, you know, and then just every breath kept I guess I can take another breath, I guess I can take another breath, you know and we had the cure playing, which was awesome.
Cheryl Cantiafio:I just kind of like dissolved into the cure. Sure, wonderful, good choice.
Eileen Grimes:I mean, what a profound. I mean what you just said, though too right, is that just I can take one more breath? Yes, I can take one more breath Like that's. I know I mean, it sounds so simple and yet it's so incredible in so much of life to just think I can take one more breath.
Dae Spiral:Yes, man, powerful, powerful experience, and I've done it five other times since then.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Wow, I mean what are the other types of system. Now you've got me attention because I'm like. I know I'm Cheryl, so hold on Listeners.
Eileen Grimes:I can't see this. But the whole that Cheryl went on this very emotional journey with her face, the whole. Listen you saw it, you were here, all right.
Dae Spiral:The way to.
Cheryl Cantiafio:At first it took me a minute to like catch up, because when you said, oh, the first time I was suspended, because you were talking about college life and stuff like that, I was like what did you get suspended from? And then my brain caught up and I was like, oh, we don't mean that, we mean the up in the air with your skin tethered and right.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Okay, so I caught up and then, for whatever reason, like in my brain, suspension is just that thing where you, just you, and I knew what you meant, like in terms of having hopes in your skin. The only thing I ever knew about was that like people actually do it like down their spine and they hang that way.
Dae Spiral:Yeah, so like if you, you know they're there, which to me is suspension positions.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yes.
Dae Spiral:I mean, you can Google suspension positions and you'll see there are a lot Some of them are look look more comfortable than others. Yeah, the one that I saw did not look comfortable at all, but people were like, oh that was great.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Thanks, and I was like look. So the Lotus one seems tame compared to what I've seen, so I would love for you to share, like the other. Sure yeah.
Dae Spiral:Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Like whatever else you've done, because that's fascinating.
Dae Spiral:I mostly have done variations on the Lotus and then the, the two in the back. There are all sorts of names for them. Some of the names aren't great, so I'll just call that one, the two in the back. But yeah, the Lotus I've done. I've done a modified Lotus that was just the tops of my thighs and my back, so it was only four, and actually the the my first one was, yeah, my first one was the only one that I've done inside. The rest have all been outside and that is I don't know. I'm of a camp of professional piercers, right, when our concept of professional piercing includes a sterile environment, right, An environment where you can be in control of how clean things are.
Dae Spiral:So there's kind of a gray area when we start to talk about practitioners being outside of the studio space, but when we're in suspension land it's kind of like I mean it's funny because piercers and tattooers are already kind of like the pirates of society, but then when you get into like suspension practitioners, they're like the pirates of the piercers Sure. So it's like they're like you know, they're like really, really, really focused on some things and other things are like it's wild, you know. Yeah, so suspending outside I much prefer and just being able to, at least when it's warmer, really cold, it's not the best, but being able, but you know that's its own medicine, right, being able to be in touch with the elements. My second suspension I did. We had a really cool setup. We had this like zipline rig.
Dae Spiral:I told you we had like weird rock climbing people right.
Eileen Grimes:So we have like big nerds and people who like know the like physics of this stuff.
Dae Spiral:So we had it was a camping trip, so it was like a bunch of piercers we went on a camping trip and we did suspensions while we were there and one of the practitioners had this zipline mechanism. So they, you know, had two points on two trees, right, a point on either tree, and the trees were going over this really beautiful stream. So they set it up so that the zipline is on. You know, there's like a pulley on those and then I'm, I'm, you know, doing my. My hooks are then attached to a rig that's attached to the pulley, so then I can zipline and be like hanging over the water and like put my feet in the water and like touching and floating over the water while I, while I was suspension suspended, so that was really beautiful.
Dae Spiral:Like I was having different, different sensations with the sensation of this, like calm molasses that, just like covers, covers my whole body as well, as you know, like the cool breeze and like sunshine on me and like my toes dipping in the water and there's like a tree. I can like touch the leaves of a tree, you know. So that was after I, after I experienced an outdoor suspension, I was like I think I just want to do it this way because it's so beautiful. My friends were there, everybody's quiet.
Dae Spiral:I just hear birds, you know, it's just like, it's just really really beautiful way to have ritual in a group blood, letting you know all of these layers and an altered, altered state of consciousness. You know a change. Not to mention the scars. Right, I do have a scar. You have to get scars afterwards they fade, you know. But the more you get suspended, the more, the more scars you have in like this area and be like wow, like when I get massaged. I think, does my massage therapist wonder what all these scars on my back?
Cheryl Cantiafio:She never asks me Right.
Eileen Grimes:I mean, that would be a tough one to be like. What would I say to?
Dae Spiral:somebody. Have you ever seen a suspension Right? We have to go into the whole thing, right?
Eileen Grimes:Exactly, yeah, oh, my goodness. Well, I would be fascinated to see one in person. That's ever something. So you just also very fine If it's a very intimate experience, that is meant to be with friends only, and I very much understand and respect that also, so I would never want to go into something like that as being just a I don't know weird observer of you know, like there's you know.
Dae Spiral:I think that with suspension it's understood that there's probably going to be people who want to watch. You know, I mean it's you know, in certain settings, right? I mean, I think that there are some people who are like I want a private. I want a private suspension. I just want my practitioner there, or like my special people there, but I think majority of people are like I'm aware that this looks weird. Yeah, okay, you want to watch? Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Come check it out. I have to control my face.
Dae Spiral:Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio:I would have to control my face because I'm whoa yeah, that would be. You know, I'd have to wear a mask or something just because I wouldn't want to be like. I wouldn't want to change people's minds and go like, oh my God, how bad does this look. And oh my God, now I'm in pain because now I'm realizing because her face. So I would be super curious. Eileen, I'm in the camp, I'll ask anything. I'll be like what is that thing? How do you do?
Eileen Grimes:that yeah, Bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble bubble.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Oh, totally yeah. Would I actually do it? No, but I applaud people that do it because there is that peace of mind, right. It's a different way of meditation and, and you know, getting in touch with spirituality and stuff like that.
Dae Spiral:Right.
Cheryl Cantiafio:And I know myself well enough that I would see one needle and I would be like have a good day, yeah.
Eileen Grimes:I'm going to go.
Cheryl Cantiafio:I'm going to go somewhere else, that's good.
Dae Spiral:Okay, very, very fair. Good for you.
Eileen Grimes:Awesome. Yeah Well, I love the idea of the transcendence, too into it being a spiritual healing right, like I think, for sure, to me, that's the, that's the amazing part of it, that I would like to be witness to, that experience of someone else. Yeah Right, having having that in that moment, I just think I feel like that would be so beautiful to to see you know. Yeah, so that's that for me, like that's the. Yes, there's definitely the mechanics of all of it, for sure, and understanding and seeing that, but also when you add into it this whole other part that you can't necessarily, I don't necessarily see this, but I know this person is going through something bigger than what's existing in this room I just I feel like that's amazing. So.
Dae Spiral:There's this point in suspending where, like I spoke to, where you have to, you have to let go. Where you have to, just you have to, really you have to let go. You have to release, you have, you can't. You have to just trust my. The people took care of me. I got things where they're supposed to be. Trusting is like tied right, my skin can hold me. That's the most amazing part is that your skin can hold you. Your skin is so strong.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Like our body is so strong. Yeah, yeah, that is amazing.
Dae Spiral:Like the fact that the sundance you know the sundance people would have to pull on their skin for days, sometimes Like that's amazing, it is. That's just so wild to me. And so there's this. I think there's this part about like trusting my body, trusting that my body is going to get me through this. That that is is a really big piece of like the reason I keep doing it. You know the exercise it's like why would I? I mean it does hurt. You know, like the before and after, the euphoria that fucking still hurts.
Dae Spiral:You know it's awful. Can I cuss? Yeah, yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yeah, oh, absolutely. I was like oh shit, I dropped an. F bomb Okay.
Dae Spiral:So you know, there is still pain involved, but the payoff of the change and the way that it changes me afterwards, I think, is, I think that's why I keep going back and doing it. You know, it's that that practice in letting go and relinquishing control and and just trusting, just trusting my skin for, you know, 20 minutes or whatever, Wonderful.
Eileen Grimes:I mean it's incredible, I don't know. There, you know, as as I am exploring what that means, I mean I have been through my whole life and just spirituality and whatever that looks like for you. You know there's, there is the like. What is it? The physical self, what is the this? The conscious self, what is like? What are all of these pieces? And that brings every single part of it into that just knowing and into the forefront, right when you're, you have the feeling of the physical, but you also experience this piece and it's just like these. It's a highly multi-dimensional experience of all of that all at the same time, and I just find that fascinating and amazing.
Dae Spiral:Yeah, agreed. Yeah, you know we have. We have so many bodies. We have a physical body, we have an emotional body, we have a spiritual body, we have a pain body. Right, we have all of these bodies. I don't even know how many bodies we have. We have a bunch. So the fact that sometimes we can link parts of our bodies or like get into different parts through other parts fascinating dance.
Eileen Grimes:It absolutely is so because I want to get into this too. You know, going from, you know, having that kind of experience and really starting to lead you into sort of that spiritual side and exploration, how did that take you from where you were then into sound healing?
Dae Spiral:Yeah, well, I had an additional experience in terms of like body ritual and I actually got to experience ritual with Fakir. Fakir passed away in 2018, but before he did, he was still doing rituals all the time and piercings all the time.
Dae Spiral:He has a piercing school in San Francisco that is still run in his honor, you know, after he's passed, and so that was 2016. I did a ritual with him and his partner, cleo, and they run these rituals and she's still running them, even even after he's passed on, and they're called spirit and flesh rituals. And you sign up and he, you know they. At that time he had this, this really beautiful space in downtown San Francisco. It was just beautiful, so cool, just just this huge altar space and this beautiful, like sacred space set up and you would go in and you would sit and you know, once you had signed up for the ritual and gotten all the paperwork and consent form and doing all the like, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you go in and he like gives me, like has all these serongs set out?
Dae Spiral:You have to like change and like get in your serong and like there's a trance drummer starting to drum, and then there are people calling in the four directions and now we're in a ritual, like we're having a ritual you know, and that was the first time that I got to experienced group ritual in this like really organized fashion, where it was like it really did feel like a like a choreographed dance, like everyone had a role or a responsibility, was either there to participate in the ritual or was there to support the people participating in the ritual. I recognize some of the guides and leaders as being piercers in the industry, but they were there to help facilitate this ritual, so that was kind of cool.
Dae Spiral:It's like, oh, I know, it's very nice and you know, for me and my partner we both participated we were on the cusp of moving from Georgia to Washington, so it was kind of a.
Dae Spiral:We had this ritual as like a well, here's the beginning of this new chapter. You know, new lives together is working in Washington and Seattle. At that time you can. I also experienced altered states of consciousness and got to play in these altered states of consciousness, which was really fun. I bet yeah, yeah, so just be literally just dancing, like having somebody drumming. And then we did, we did. Do you know? If you wanted to do piercings, you could do piercings, but you could also just participate in this ritual. I did little like little baby, like 14 gauge needles right here, Okay, and they had like little tiny hooks with like little strings and just for pulling, not for like hanging your body weight on Right, and my partner did as well. And then I took excuse me, I took a vow of silence through cheek spears, which is a practice where they pierce, they pierce, you pierce here and here.
Eileen Grimes:And it's the spear that goes through.
Dae Spiral:And then there's like these really ornamental ends, okay, and you wear that as a as a vow of silence, as a mark that I'm not going to speak at all during this ritual. Wow, I remember feeling like seeing the the cheek spears and just immediately seeing them previously right and being like I have I have to do that and I didn't know why I it wasn't like I want to have my cheeks pierced. You know it's like I as a piercer, I know that is a very painful piercing, it's a terrible piercing.
Cheryl Cantiafio:I bet it's very very difficult to heal.
Dae Spiral:So many complications can happen. So I was like I don't. It wasn't that I wanted to get my cheeks pierced. It was that something was pulling me to do that. I didn't understand that. It was a vow of silence.
Dae Spiral:I just knew that I was going to do that. And so, you know, at this ritual we're, like you know, signing up for what we're doing and I was like I'm doing this and Fakir is like, just so, you know, that's a vow of silence, so that means the whole ritual. You're not allowed to say anything Like all right. Yes, that's my medicine for this ritual too.
Eileen Grimes:So I did that.
Dae Spiral:And in the ritual space there are several piercers that Fakir has designated for different things. You know, some people were doing the chest hooks, some people were doing hooks in their back instead, and then Fakir was the one doing the cheek piercings, and so I got to get pierced by Fakir. Wow, and the way that he did it was I still don't. I mean, I was in a trance state, of course, right.
Eileen Grimes:We had the drums going so that makes sense.
Dae Spiral:But I didn't feel it, it didn't hurt at all, it felt like nothing. I mean like I felt it, but there wasn't pain. Yeah, it was really, really blew my mind and I'm still like I guess it was the trance state I was in, it was just a magic piercing? I don't know.
Dae Spiral:But he grabbed my head, grabbed my head, like on either side of my temples, and looked me dead in the eyes, and then he grabbed my cheek and did the piercings. And then he did this cute little like, like, just like little palm, tap right on, like where my third eye is, and he just like boop and like he like sent me off. He would like do that and like send you off. Okay, now you go dance, you go twirl around and have fun in the ritual space.
Dae Spiral:Wow, and so I did. I had never been in a space where I was told to dance, go dance. You know it's like just like without people, like wanting me to be sexy, or like, you know, trying to flirt with people, or like being in a club. You know like, just go dance, like dance, your dance with your energy.
Dae Spiral:You know like dance with your wounds, dance with your pain, dance with the ritual dance.
Dae Spiral:And so I did. I mean, shook my body about you know, and moved in rhythm until I realized that I didn't give a shit, I wasn't caring about what I looked like, I was just in this soup with everyone, we were all just dancing, we're all in our like orange, orange wraps, and this like palpable energy in the air of this, of ritual, of humans exploring the world, exploring, witnessing, bleeding, having joy and pain, and this symphony of this is life, this is what we do, this is being human and it just being such a powerful experience. And then, at the end, closing, closing the circle, and then having a feast. They had a beautiful meal for all of us. We had at this long, long table, just one really long table with all of us and shared, you know, shared a meal and shared space and energy. And that Sparks something in me, especially the fact that music was involved, that there was this drumming element happening in the background the whole time. That definitely affected my state you know that definitely influenced me.
Dae Spiral:You know, fast forward to the meditation retreat that I went on in 2020. And that is 10 days of silence, wow.
Eileen Grimes:I mean, I'll be honest, I so right now that sounds glorious a little bit to me as a mom, yeah, a single mom, with a, you know, with my two kids, a full time. You know, mom to them, love them dearly, and also.
Dae Spiral:Quiet, quiet would be nice.
Eileen Grimes:Yeah, yeah, and I'm such an introvert too that I'm like I need that also to just feed myself and things I could. I'll be honest 10 days with that I'm sure 10 days is actually can be difficult and there's certainly a journey that you have to go on. As as that progresses and over that 10 day period, I am not going to claim like, yeah, oh, 10 days, that sounds easy, Obviously super easy to do. But yeah, that must have been such an incredible experience for you. Where was it? Do you, did you? Do you go somewhere for it?
Dae Spiral:Okay, so it's. The center that I went to is here in Washington. It's in on Alaska, washington. The method of meditation that I learned is called the Pashna, and the Pashna technique is the technique that the Buddha used to reach enlightenment. So it's just one meditation technique that we're taught. We're taught like a, you're taught like a lead up, like a practice version of it in the first three days and then at the fourth day you start like actually learning the rest of the technique and you take a vow of noble silence, which is that you don't speak, but you also promise to not try to communicate to anybody at all.
Dae Spiral:So you don't try to like make eye contact with people and be like you know or like your food and be like this food is good or this food is bad. You know, like nothing, don't you know? Try not to make eye contact with people, noble silence. So it's like this, this promise that you make where you're, I'm going to, I'm going to work and to create an environment that you, like you were alone, like you're totally alone, but obviously you know it's not really feasible for just you to be at the center.
Dae Spiral:So there, are a bunch of other people here, but it's you know, we're trying to create an environment that you were in solitude.
Cheryl Cantiafio:So you couldn't play music, you couldn't do any like nothing to read books like anything, just sit in silence.
Dae Spiral:You agree to join you. You promise that you won't bring anything, so like you hand over. You hand over your phone and your car keys and they lock them in, like this special secure area. You can leave if you want, but they just they do that so that it's it's tricky, you know. Say you want to do this, we're going to help you do this.
Cheryl Cantiafio:You really want to do this, okay.
Dae Spiral:If you really want to leave, they'll give you your keys and you can leave, but they really try to, not. They were like are you sure you're already here? You did all this work, you said right. So, yeah, I handed over my keys and my wallet and my you know phone. Yeah, don't bring any books, Don't bring any journals. You don't bring any talisman crystals, special things, anything which was hard for me because I love crystals.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yeah, that's a true journey.
Dae Spiral:I left them in the car. I was like they're coming with me in the car. They'll stay in the parking.
Eileen Grimes:They have amazing crystals, just if you probably want to know. Yes, it's very true, I'm a crystal cuddler.
Dae Spiral:Yeah, so yeah, the hand, everything over. And the first day I remember feeling like can I still talk? Am I supposed to be silent now?
Dae Spiral:But, you can still talk the very first day. You're like, you know, getting your stuff. They give you, bring you to your room and it's really really lovely. So the little nerdy background stuff. The center is only run by donation. It's totally free, it costs nothing to do. It's only run by donation and you can only donate if you've done a course already. So it's only what they call old students If you've done the course and you're considered an old student. So only old students donate. So it's only run by people who have benefited from this meditation practice. So it's a really cool system. That's like community based, you know, and so, yeah, the resource for that is damaorg, if you're ever interested in learning about this.
Eileen Grimes:Okay, I am.
Dae Spiral:It's very cool and so, yeah, it's delicious vegan food. So delicious, so good. Me and my partner make this trip. My partner went on this meditation retreat, has been on it twice and when I met him he had just finished one and he was like such a like Zen person. I was like, what is it about this person?
Eileen Grimes:Well, I just did 10 days of silence.
Dae Spiral:I did this meditation retreat, I was like what that is so cool? It was like when we first met like we weren't even dating yet. I was just like getting to know him and I remember even back then thinking like nine years ago, it was like I want to try to do that someday.
Eileen Grimes:That sounds really hard.
Dae Spiral:I want to try and do that someday. So I made this plan in November of 2019, because you have to apply like a couple months in advance and they fill up sort of fast, so you have to kind of like, okay, when is the next one to apply? You have to like save the date and I like set all these reminders and like planned it, signed up for it, and then, yeah, I went there and while I was there, the whole world shut down.
Eileen Grimes:Yeah, fully cow. I mean talk about timing.
Dae Spiral:It was so I mean it was, it was really interesting, timing right, because this technique is teaching you how everything is. The only constant is change.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yeah, everything is always changing Absolutely. I can't even imagine coming out of 10 days of silence and then walking into no toilet paper, no toilet paper.
Eileen Grimes:It's like there's like a movie.
Cheryl Cantiafio:There's a movie called Sean of the Dead. Yes and right. So, like you're in this state of like, whatever, I did this thing and you do the same thing every day, right? So you've come out of this quiet space and literally like everybody's in this chaotic space, but you're still in this Zen mode and like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, did something bad happen? Like what's happening, what's going on? I can't even that must have been.
Dae Spiral:It was so wild, it was so wacky, the day before, the day before the end. Okay, so you do 10 days of silence. So on the ninth day you break silence so that you can reintegrate with the world.
Dae Spiral:On the 10th day, because, well, I guess it's technically the you do 10 days of silence but then on the 11th day so the last day, where the last day, you, you are able to speak again. And I'm very glad for that one, because after speaking again, I realized that I could feel my voice and my whole body Like. Sure, I could feel my voice and I can still feel my voice, like even in my toes, if I really really focus on it while I'm speaking. I can feel it vibrating everywhere. But when I first, when I first spoke, I'm like whoa, whoa, my body feel weird because I really didn't talk the whole time.
Dae Spiral:There are there are these little gaps in the day where you can meet with a teacher and ask questions about the technique, so you don't have to just sit in silence for the 10 days if you're like I am confused, I don't understand something. You know you can. There are these like little breaks, but I didn't do any of those. I OK, there was one night where the moon was full and I went whoa, mama, I just I didn't mean to, but the moon was just using the middle of nowhere.
Dae Spiral:The sky was just so beautiful and I just could not. Well, I just talked and I did not talk, but that I did break silence one one time at the moon, but I didn't speak to anybody but the moon, but yeah, so I got a long track. I was trying to remember, oh, breaking silence brings us so the day before breaking silence, the kind of like director of the property, I guess.
Dae Spiral:He was the main the main, the main hippie, the main meditator, yeah, Was like so tomorrow is the day that everybody, you know, goes back into the world, and you know it's important to to just really cherish the time that you have right now and the time that you've had here, because things are going to be really different when you go out into the world tomorrow. And and I really it's important that we don't, it's important that I, that we continue the the you know boundary or agreement that we've made for this time. So we're, you know we're not going to discuss what's happening, but you and you will find out tomorrow. You know everyone will get their phones back, you'll all be able to plug back into the world. But just know that this is a time that is really really important to to practice what you've learned here in these past 10 days, like this technique is really going to help you in in in what's, what's, you know what you're about to walk back in and walk into.
Dae Spiral:I was like what is happening? I was really worried, I was really scared. I was like was there like a war? Is there like a bomb? Like what? Is my partner still there? You know I was. I was like freaking out.
Dae Spiral:I didn't even I didn't even realize that, you know, because I knew that COVID had was starting to, you know, happen right, I mean, we had heard things, but you know, sir, literally like the second week of March, like it was the week that everything shut down in Washington.
Eileen Grimes:Oh my gosh Dae.
Dae Spiral:So, yeah, I turned my phone on and had a bunch of texts from my partner saying that you know, things are really crazy right now and to to try and find toilet paper on the way home. Oh, my goodness, and I did. I stopped in some like middle of nowhere grocery store and there was no toilet paper, but there were baby wipes, so I grabbed as many baby wipes as I could. Oh my God, I came home.
Cheryl Cantiafio:And that's a book, that is a book Totally. I mean, yeah, that is just how do you go from silence to chaos? In 60 seconds, you know that is, or in 10 days even.
Dae Spiral:Yeah, that's been quite a lesson and I mean I feel like I'm still learning Still a liar lying things that I learned there, but, but, yeah, that that experience was powerful because of that, of the surroundings, because I was in such a like, I was such a clean slate. You know, it's like there wasn't. When you stop talking, you have a lot of mind chatter, but then the mind chatter turns into something else, it turns into memories, it turns into past mind chatter and then, and then I'm not even sure what's happening. I don't know what layer I tapped, it tapped into by the end there, but I know, I know 100% that I saw past lives of mine.
Dae Spiral:I know 100% that I had visions of lives that I that weren't this life, but they weren't. They were me, but they weren't, but they weren't me. And I think that was the weirdest thing. I'm like the most sober I've ever been and the most like vegan I've ever been, like a very clean body and yeah, and and it was. You know, I always thought, ok, all right, so if, if you know, past lives are a thing, if it's really a thing that we, that our spirits, are everlasting and come back in different forms, you know, if that's really a thing I didn't think that I would see.
Dae Spiral:I didn't, I don't know. I didn't think that I would experience what I experienced, because what I experienced were like little blips of the end, like I experienced the end of one of my lives and I experienced the the end that I forced onto another life, and like, really, I'm going to see these like this. These are the visions that I have.
Eileen Grimes:You know, it's like interesting.
Dae Spiral:So, yeah, those, those moments really stand out as like as this, like telescope through dimensions, you know, along the lines of what we're talking about here, of these these in between worlds. You know that we can sometimes touch or grasp or see like a just like a pain of you know, looking through a window. I don't know. It's yeah I. That's why I need to go.
Eileen Grimes:I need to go now because that's actually why I for the longest time and I just don't do anymore because I just don't but I loved long distance running. So I was doing like marathon training you sure don't talk to anybody, well, I mean, I guess some people do, I was. I was not one of those runners that can go for you know days, but I, I would you know, had to do like a three hour run or something like that. And you're quiet, like it's just quiet, and I never I didn't run with like music or anything, I just I liked to just be. And you know, the first part of my run, the first few miles, were always like the chatter, chatter, chatter, chatter, chatter.
Eileen Grimes:I'm like my brain's going through all the stuff and sure I mean God, anyone, anyone who knows me, there's a lot of stuff happening all the time, and then it's like I ran past that until it finally got quiet and that was incredible. I mean just to sit in the quiet and be entirely present. That for me running was meditation, like it just, it just is, it is. It was the moment to allow for those things to quiet and then to get to this place where I saw the trees and I saw like I could smell the air. I could like everything became so much more clear when I would be doing that. So I can, I can see absolutely the benefit of that and even over an extended period of time to how that could then increase what that experience looks like and deepen it even further. So I'm very interested and I have the website up now.
Dae Spiral:Yay, yeah, the. The thing about the teacher that teaches the Vipassana technique is that he's already passed on, but he made tapes on how to teach and they're they still play the tapes.
Dae Spiral:So it's the same teacher teaching it the same way. The assistant teachers are just there if you have questions, but they give you the same answers. That he gives you Wow, and his, his name is going to G, and going to G is also known as the singing meditation teacher and in his, in the very in the OK. So it's like a. It's like you get up at like four in the morning. There's like a bell and you get up and then you start meditating at like 430 in the morning.
Dae Spiral:You either do it in your room or you go to the hall and the main meditation hall they play these tapes of him singing in the, in Pali, which is the same language that the Buddha spoke, the same language that this technique was written in, and you know it's it's like kind of gluttural and he's like an older dude, so it's like really low and like the first time I heard I was like what the fuck is this? This is supposed to be?
Cheryl Cantiafio:the meditation music. That's what we have to meditate to.
Dae Spiral:I was like great, this is like a cough. I was just, I was such a proud about it. I was like this is like shit, I don't like this.
Dae Spiral:And then I, after a couple of days, I continue to go to the the hall because my roommate would just sleep and he was snoring really loud and so I was like it's hard to meditate while this is snoring, so I was like I'll just go to the hall and then after a couple of days of doing it and with meditating, with with the singing happening in the hall, I realized I was not annoyed by it at all and I found it actually really peaceful. It's like a lullaby, it was just like so comforting and I was like I don't understand the words he's saying at all, but the way that the vibrations are hitting me is like doing something to me. Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio:It sounds like the same way that the the trance drums hit you yeah.
Dae Spiral:Very similar yes.
Cheryl Cantiafio:It's that same.
Dae Spiral:It's like this frequency resonating, you know, creating this sound wave of vibration in me, entrainment really. I mean that's the physics. The physics behind it is entrainment. But when I, you know, once I got back, I hyper fixated on the technique and like learning, and looked up what he was saying. I found a translation in the like on the website, you know, look up the different mornings and I found the different morning meditation songs, I found the med, I found the translation. I was like what is he saying? He was calling in the directions. He's calling in the spirits. He's calling in the protection of the land. He's calling he was, he was casting a circle, he's casting a spell the whole time.
Dae Spiral:He's like right Doing energy, doing energy work making vibrations in the air so that the space around the meditators would be beneficial for meditating. Like, and something clicked with me, with all of like, realizing all of that, and it was like music. It's something about music, there's something about me and music and I was supposed to do something with music and it's not.
Dae Spiral:It's not to like. I'm supposed to be famous for singing. I'm supposed to play something perfectly. It's about guiding people through sound. That's what I'm supposed to do. And the more that I come up, came upon that answer, the less I could deny it and the more I had to be like I have to step into this, I have to continue to move towards this and started to find ways to incorporate it into you know the piercings I was doing and started to just take classes and hang the certificate on my wall in the piercing room so that people would ask me what's sound healing about?
Eileen Grimes:That's what I did.
Dae Spiral:People started to ask and I was like, cool, it's working, yeah and yeah. And then we got to connect and do some work together and yeah, now I'm. Now I'm on my own, I quit piercing full time and I'm doing my own thing.
Eileen Grimes:Wonderful Good for you. Thank you, which I mean, I know, for your, for your own healing and for all of that for you. That's incredible. I also felt like it was such a gift to be able to work with you in in that piercing space. I, truly honestly, I was. There's a part of me that's like, ah okay, well, now I find one, a new piercing, I have to find someone else, but I was. I feel like it was a gift to be able to have had that experience with you. It really was incredible as well, as you know the sound healing that we did and I still like I don't want to give it all away, but there's, there's was something that that you were helping me guide through and I still use. I still have my like circle of past and present selves that I still use a piece of me and it's it's so healing and just what I need often that I bring that back a lot. So thank you for thank you for sharing that.
Dae Spiral:Yeah, wow, that's so cool. The things that happen when I'm doing sound healing are not always from me, and that is such a it just blows my mind that I like get connected and then stuff comes through me and I'm like, well, I was supposed to come out cool, yeah, and so it's just so. It's just so touching to me when, when I hear that that you know was beneficial to you and that it's been, you know, powerful for you, that's thank you for telling me. That's so cool?
Eileen Grimes:Yeah, absolutely. So. What are you? So? What do you do now with this? Obviously you're not. You know you've quit piercing. I know there was a. You had a really nice and also just such a lovely transition from that to as you were making sure that those you were still working with. There was a transition from that and I I follow Dae so just like all the time I see where even going from the different social media is. I'm like, okay, well now Dae's over here.
Dae Spiral:So yeah, be watching everything here. I figured out, yeah.
Eileen Grimes:But anyway, that was just beautiful in the way that you did that in such a like kind, thoughtful, healing, intentional way. And now into this so what? What are you now doing full time and what does that look like?
Dae Spiral:Yeah, so I'm a full time sound practitioner now. I'm working with people in a couple different capacities so I do do one on one work. You know if you want to do a session one on one and I can do work with lots of modalities to have. You know the crystal singing bowls. I have tuning forks. Those tend to be my two go tos to working with, like rebalancing our energy centers or if people have like a specific issue that they're working with, a lot of the times energy work and sound healing will help think, help people with things that Western medicine goes.
Dae Spiral:I don't know what to do you know, a lot of times people are have an issue and they're like nothing else will help this thing. Can we try this? And I'm like, yeah, we totally can. The other things that I'm doing are I do have a couple of free offerings that I'm doing on social media just to, you know, try to get the word out and to try and gain followers. And, you know, serve the algorithm, gods. I know, right, terrible.
Dae Spiral:I don't hear it but also making customized tracks for people for different situations. So, like right now, I've been hired to make a track for someone who's having surgery and they're actually going to be partially awake during the surgery. They're just doing like a nerve call. I'm imbuing this track with frequencies, with vibrations for healing and intentions, as well as literally putting like words in so that she has words to listen to while that's happening. So those are, you know, the offerings that I'm doing in the world. Right now I've just finished an intensive mentorship with a member of the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra, so I'm incorporating a lot of things that I've learned in that and kind of, you know, redoing some things behind the scenes and I'm going to, you know, pull the curtain out and, you know, announce and sort of put new stuff out into the world. I'd say by the new year is kind of what I'm playing.
Eileen Grimes:Okay Well, I'll be watching, so yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio:So how, at that point, how do people connect with you on social media Like where are you?
Dae Spiral:Yeah, so you can find my sound healing work at spiral sound healing on Instagram on Tiktok it's spiral dot sound dot healing. And then spiral sound healing dot com is my website. And then, if you wanted to see any of my body piercing stuff, I still have stuff on Dae piercing on my Instagram page. So, yeah, if you have piercing questions, I am still doing professional consulting in the piercing world. So I'm consulting with users who have questions or people who are concerned, you know, interested in apprenticeships and that kind of thing. So you know I can I also do consulting for folks. But yeah, we're a couple hats.
Dae Spiral:But spiral sounds spiral sound healing is where you can find me most of the time now.
Eileen Grimes:Yeah, I, just having been through a session with you, I'm looking to expand that a little bit, and I also. So again, cheryl knows this about me as soon as you start talking about the things in your business, I'm like you should go talk to like a midwives group.
Dae Spiral:Yes, Because I feel like there would be.
Eileen Grimes:Right like how, how many women go through, I mean, this experience of birth and everything, and to have that sort of additional healing piece through it, right like I just feel like that would be incredible. And I'll be honest, I had. Well, I had a conversation today with my one of my parents and just even from you know from that there's there is life and death, and I know there are death do laws and things along the way.
Eileen Grimes:And even the transition of some of that to like I don't like. These are moments that what an incredibly beautiful and powerful modality to bring into that. Yeah, I just feel like that would be incredible. So as soon as you talk about surgery, I'm like OK, here's like 10 million more ideas. Yes, I love that, thank you.
Dae Spiral:I've actually been thinking about trying to trying to do work with with kids to, because kids are like so down to make sounds and I feel like there's a, there's a point where we lose that and if, like, if we can keep that and cultivate that, then we'll have different humans, if we're like not scared to make, let our sounds come out, you know? Yeah, so that's just something I'm thinking about, but yeah, I reached out to you a little while ago.
Eileen Grimes:I was like we need to talk more, because one I also am. I'm a pastor, I'm a, I have my, my, whatever license or whatever that's called.
Dae Spiral:I've been thinking about getting ordained to.
Eileen Grimes:Yes, that's what, thank you, there's the word I'm working also. Yeah, but I have a few things that I'd like to really start building up here. And spoke can, and so I definitely want to talk to you more about some of that. And and in healing, and what does it mean to be a creator? So, would love to.
Eileen Grimes:Yes, I think I feel like I'm supposed to be talking to you about some of this stuff so anyway, yes, I'm very excited to hear one what's upcoming, and we'll just have to the what's happening, what you know, we'll have to wait until the new year to hear about that, and that's very OK. But yeah, I just I'm continually inspired by you and everything that you're doing and bringing into this world, and you know like we talk about this is you only go once and you are bringing light into this world that needs it.
Eileen Grimes:So so, much, yeah, and to have this healing impact for others and even yourself and there's nothing selfish about that in any way shape or form Right, and you to be able to do that, as well as you need to for others, you have to be able to give that to yourself, and I'm just I'm so grateful to know you, to have fallen into your sphere of existence and knowing, and I just can't wait to keep seeing all the amazing things you're going to be doing.
Dae Spiral:Oh, this has been so lovely. I'm so thankful that I've gotten to spend this time with you all. It's been really nice. It's been so nice to connect with you again.
Eileen Grimes:It's been way too long since we've seen each other Absolutely chat more often.
Dae Spiral:I would love to connect with you more.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think we need to bring you back in 2024 because we need to hear the rest of where everything is going.
Dae Spiral:Yes, I would love to.
Cheryl Cantiafio:I just thoroughly enjoyed your journey. I've enjoyed listening to you talk about where you've been, where you're going, and, honestly, I feel like this is going to be one of those cliffhanger podcast episodes where people are going to be like well, wait a minute. What happens next? Right, what happens next? So I can't wait and thank you so much for what. We're honored that you shared your story with us, because this was just been I. You know, I could have been here another two hours honestly just going tell us more.
Dae Spiral:What is this? My face hurts from smiling. It's so wonderful.
Eileen Grimes:We do.
Dae Spiral:It's a project out.
Cheryl Cantiafio:Oh my goodness, alright, everyone. So, dave, thank you so much on behalf of Eileen Grimes and myself. This concludes another episode of you. Only go once, take care, see you next time. Bye.
